Above, is my neighbor, Heidi. Really just an acquaintance who runs a training and boarding facility just a mile down the road from us. She recently announced on Facebook that her son is stationed at Fort Hood, but is alright, Thank God for some of them. It must have a scary several hours from breaking news to hearing his voice. We lost a few here in Wisconsin as I'm sure others elsewhere as well, not to mention the injured fighting for their lives. Once again on our own soil.
I know the politicians are voicing "Not to jump to any conclusions" And perhaps they are right, however, the way I feel is : If it quacks like a duck & looks like a duck, it is a duck! Anyone else out there holding an opinion as to what went wrong, please feel free to voice it agreeable or not, it's welcome here. I just think that someone dropped the ball here somewhere along the line and this could have been prevented. This is an outrage and a crying shame. My prayers are for our soldiers over seas and those who have loved ones here at home at Fort Hood.
27 comments:
Amen Callie...
I find it alarming to hear that the apparent perpetrator had already raised several eyebrows with earlier threats and odd behavior . . . but he was never stopped.
It's just another Columbine/V Tech/etc. type situation. The problem is that the "signs" that were "overlooked" also show up with people who don't go bananas and try to shoot everyone. You can't punish people for crimes they might commit, therefore it always seems to come as a surprise if someone does commit them.
To me, whether or not the shooting had to do with him being Muslim isn't the issue. It's important to remember that there are also tens of thousands Muslims in the U.S. that don't do this kind of thing. So his religious beliefs shouldn't be an issue at all, except for as a clue to establishing a motive.
I think it was such a tragic event. It was so sad, and is such a heartbreaking thing for all those families who lost someone. That man was nuts!
The trouble is that if the authorities step in before they have enough evidence to obtain a conviction, they get lambasted by the Civil Rights mobs! That's the way we went in the UK, and you will go in the USA. Awful - but true.
Well, here ya go.......
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33777070/ns/us_news-tragedy_at_fort_hood/
Amen to that. My BIL is at Ft. Hood, we were lucky to reach him on his cell right away. Terribly scary thing to have happen, but I'm not surprised. I bet we see more of it in the future.
Hard to say exactly what happened, but it seems there were hints trouble was ahead. I'll have to reserve judgment until more information comes out.
If you have any doubts that this "duck" was quacking as such, I suggest you listen to the news tonight and copy and paste the link I just put up in these comments...... We knew this son of a bitch was dangerous yet somehow, it didn't get taken care of prior to this incident. I'd really like to hear the excuse as to why.....that's intellegence held back by fucking politicians......WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.........This could have very well been prevented!!!!!!!!!
I'm not lashing out at any of you, my friends, just fricken shocked of what I just read and listened to on the news!
Anyone notice who got appointed to the Homeland Security today? Need I say more?
Gail, Are you fucking kidding????????? OMG! I just looked it up! You need Not say more....I simply say WTF?
Callie, I read the article you linked to. Here's another with some more information:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/us/10inquire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
They certainly knew he was in touch with a radical a few times, but that in itself doesn't make someone dangerous. They didn't think he would become violent. It's a terrible thing that he did, but as they say, "Hindsight is 20/20." That doesn't necessarily mean it could have been prevented, just that looking back on it we can think of things we could have done differently. But even if we had done them differently, who knows whether it would have prevented it? Maybe more aggressive action against him would have just sent him further over to the other side, and he would have caused a lot worse damage than 13 dead.
I think it's best not to second guess these things, especially since we don't know the full story. I'll wait until the rest of the details come to light, but in the meantime I think it's important to remember that just because someone is Muslim, doesn't mean they are violent.
I've been really busy with grandchildren, babysitting and the barn lately so I haven't gotten around to the full story and really can't comment or for an opinion yet, I'll need to get more facts. But I do know about the appointment to homeland security and find it rather odd and disturbing. I feel so bad for all the parents and loved ones of the poor kids who were murdered at Ft. Hood. What a shame.
HHHMMMM,
I am someone who believes strongly in the freedom of Religion and does not believe I or anyone else has the right to judge others mainly because of my own lack of knowledge , BUT and here is the big BUT .
When a man or woman signs up and is paid from that countries tax payers to fight for their country, there is an implied belief that Country Comes First be they Christian, Jew, Muslim or any other religion .
I do not know of any true religious beliefs that believes the taking of another's life is good , but war requires that sacrifice from our armed forces override moral and religious beliefs.
Therefore when a man who is part of the armed forces makes the statement " I am a Muslim first and an American second" this should raise red flags as to whether that person is suitable for the role they paid to undertake.
Just my own views sorry if this upsets some
Steve
Katherine, I love it that you present another side to the arguement. It's always good, however, even in the article you posted from the New York Times, sends red flags up. Is this not why we have "Intellegence", Home Land Security, CIA, FBI and so forth, of which I think there are too many political agendas going to do their job well? Their job is to find such things and raise red flags, including many that worked side by side with this man and complained to their CO's that something was up. There were so many red flags that our intellegence blew off. I'm sorry but I still beleive that the ball was dropped somewhere here and I'm sure the families of those injured and Killed would believe the same, now that this is all coming out. Yes, he may very well have acted alone, however, he was on radar and they chose to leave it alone, the mind baffles.
Actually, freedom of religion is great, a lot of people would find my beliefs odd, I understand the majority of Muslims do not believe what the radicals do, just the same as radical Christians and so forth, BUT,,,,,,BUT we are at war with Terrorists who happen to be Radical Muslims.......Let's just think about that for a minute.....
And They Want Us DEAD!!!!!!!!! At whatever costs!!!!!!!!!
We can all run around screaming that this should have been done, that should have been done... BUT... IMO had Army policy been different, in allowing arms on the enlisted men/ women at all times, SOMEONE COULD HAVE ELIMINATED THE THREAT BEFORE 13 PEOPLE DIED.
Period.
Well said Callie and Steve!!
If you are going to put your religion first...you SHOULD not be in the armed services. EVER!!
My nephew is at Ft. Carson in Colorado Springs, so obviously was not in harms way, but things have gotten very, very tight now. NOW?!
True, Mrs.Mom, but then he would have already had his weapon and not had to go off base and purchase one, either way someone would have been killed, if he was that determined, maybe not as many.
Callie, I definitely appreciate what you are saying -- that someone dropped the ball. What I'm saying is simply that we can't assume that everything appeared this cut and dry before the massacre. There are lots of people in this world who have personality disorders and other things that make them act threatening or "off," yet they never pack two guns and a bunch of bullets and massacre a bunch of kids. There are also plenty of Muslims in our country, some of which may have ties to extremists, yet they would never do anything like this themselves.
Are you suggesting we just lock up ALL of society's misfits, whether or not they have done anything "yet"? Most of them probably never willnever do anything to this magnitude. Sure, perhaps the military should have at least kept an eye on this guy, but I don't think it sounds like they knew anything that would have foretold a disaster like this.
Steve, honestly I am not religious, so I don't understand the concept of being relious first and American second. I can understand wanting your soldiers to be loyal to your country first, but then the same standards have to apply to both Christians and Muslims.
Finally, Callie, think for a minute about ALL the wars where Christians fought Christians. Why can't we believe then that Muslims would fight with us against other Muslims? We're fighting extremists and we can't lump all Muslims in together, any more than someone can lump together all the different factions of Christianity and claim they all believe the exact same thing.
Nobody is lumping all Muslims together, that is Not what I said. At all........I'm simply saying that this perpetrator set off red flags everywhere for some time now, that apparently our Security knew about. Why wasn't he discharged? Before he went to the gun store.........
To Katharine,
Hi Katherine I do understand what your saying but the point I was trying to make was that having talked to my own father who killed others in the line of duty during World War II and whose ship was sunk twice said this to me when I asked about the War.
During war and in protection for his country he was forced to kill men as part of his effort , he spent many years afterwards wishing he had not taken other lives BUT he also told me "He enlisted in the armed forces to protect his country and he was a Soldier First and all other moral beliefs were second"
I am sure if he said to others in his team that he was a christian first ( I.E. did not believe in the taking of another mans life ) and a soldier second his commitment and duty to his Country would have been questioned .
Steve
Steve, that is a good point. I wasn't thinking about the Christian ban on killing. But you're right, and there even are factions of Christianity -- the Amish and the Menonites, I believe are two -- that do not allow their members to fight because of that. The military doesn't actually require you to swear you are a soldier first and a Christian/Muslim/whatever second, though, does it?
Callie, sorry, I misunderstood your point when you commented that we are fighting Muslims and "let's just think about that for a moment." I thought you were saying Muslims shouldn't be in the military because of that fact. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
Hey, Katherine, That's ok, everyone's opinion is welcome here and I love a good arguement, gets the blood stirring, good for the heart, makes us all think a bit. You know you're always welcome here. ;)
Callie -- I feel the same way -- good to find someone like minded! I'm always happy to have a good debate, so thanks for inviting it! ;o)
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